Read the following articles about Gary McKinnon, a man from the UK diagnosed with Asperger's, and his legal involvement with the United States:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/160039.php
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/31/gary-mckinnon-loses-extradition-appeal
Given what you know and the following article describing the implications of Asperger's, (http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html) what do you think should be done regarding Gary MicKinnon's situation? Is it fair to extradite him? Should he be held responsible for his actions?
This seems similar to the discussion involving traumatic brain injury we had a few weeks ago, yet it is much clearer that Gary McKinnon was known to have Asperger's before he committed the crime, thus it is very likely that it could have influenced his actions to some extent. Any ruling in the United States will probably be more severe than one that might occur in the United Kingdom because the US is the victim in the situation. However, if Gary McKinnon is shown leniency for the sake of his high-functioning disability, it will set a precedent that could lead to some serious future implications. Convicts in the future could fake disabilities or people with actual disabilities could be exploited and used to do illegal things because those that exploit them feel confident that they won't be punished.
We feel that, because Gary's offense was repeated many times over again and because of the high-functioning nature of Asperger's, he must suffer some consequences. Because the ruling in the UK found it appropriate for Gary to be extradited, we feel that the government should follow through with extradition and trial. While this may seem harsh considering his circumstances, we feel it will teach him that there are serious consequences for serious actions--just like we would use consequences to teach our kids in the classroom--as well as setting necessary precedent that will protect others in the future.
I understand that extradition may cause psychological stress because of his Aspergers and those with this condition do not deal well with change and transitions. I think the extradition process could be handled cautiously and with care to not cause him undo stress. I do agree that he needs to be held accountable for his actions. Whether he is extradited or not, he needs to be prosecuted for his terrorist actions against the United States.
ReplyDeleteI too understand the stress and possible harm that extradition may cause Gary because of his disability. I think that the process should continue however and that he should be fully charged in the U.S. He committed a crime against the U.S. and I think it both legally and morally right for him to extradited. I can totally understand his fathers concerns for his health and well being. It probably parallels most parents feeling when their children are facing up to 60 years in prison. Just as with the inmates with TBI I think that Gary should be treated with proper respect and care. I think that we need to be very careful that disabilities, don't start to become an excuse for illegal behavior.
ReplyDeleteOh my ridiculous. Seriously, I can't stand reading things like this- it gets me too worked up :). Yes, Gary has Asperger's Syndrome, but he should suffer the consequences same as anyone else. The people I have met with Asperger's Syndrome are very smart, and as the article mentioned, they have a normal IQ- it's their social skills that suffer. He obviously was smart enough to hack into 97 computers, I think he was smart enough to realize that there would be consequences. It's unfortunate that he made that decision and will have to face such a huge consequence, but we can't just excuse anyone and everyone who makes some kind of excuse of why they are above the law. If his disability was more profound, I would think a little differently, but as he was able to hack into 97 high-security computers, I think that's obviously not the case.
ReplyDeleteI watched some interviews with Gary McKinnon on YouTube. He speaks very intelligently and obviously knew what he was doing was illegal, though I did get the impression that he was very obsessed with UFOs, extraterrestrial life, anti-gravity technology, free energy breakthroughs, etc. (information about which he says he was looking for on the military and NASA computers, with the altruistic motive of making it available to the public). The possibility of this obsession overcoming his reason should be considered. However, wikipedia states that he was only diagnosed with Aspergers in 2008 so it must not be very serious, and since he is facing trial, he has a pretty good motive to lie or exaggerate.
ReplyDeleteWhether extradited and tried in the US, or tried in the UK, I think he should be held accountable. Much of the controversy over extradition seems to be whether a criminal should be tried by their own country or handed over to the country they offended, rather than controversy over his accountability as a person with a disability. I don't know about the extradition question, but I don't believe his disability is serious enough to excuse him.
Hmmm...I do not know Gary, so I can no so easily be angry at him as everyone else. When I initially read the argument posted by this group, I thought for sure he had murdered someone or blew up a building. But he fiddled around with computers? I just think that no one died and that people shouldn't be so pissed off. Also, there were little examples of what previous courses of interventions had taken place. I wish that it said what the government has tried in disciplining Gary. I know there were several counts of offense, but did they only catch him once? I agree that we are all accountable for our sins, but we are also not the final judgment. We must consider a higher moral level of thinking and understanding before sending him off to prison. I guess I just do not know how high functioning he is and how serious the crime was. It just says he hacked in and said some mean stuff...
ReplyDeleteI most definitely think Gary should be held accountable for his actions. Gary obviously knows what he did was illegal, so he should have appropriate consequences that follow. In one of the articles it said, “McKinnon admitted hacking into 97 computers, leaving a message in US military systems saying: "I will continue to disrupt." Having Aspergers or not, he should not be leaving messages saying that he is going to continue to disrupt. If he knew what he was doing was wrong then why didn’t he stop? I also don’t think this is just a little thing that Gary did, and doesn’t matter that much. It said in one of the articles that, “The US government said repairs cost $700,000 (£430,000) and the Crown Prosecution Service said his hacking activities were not random experiments in hacking but a deliberate effort to breach US defense systems in 2001-02.” I don’t know about you but causing $700,000 in repairs is not something you just ignore. Gary knew what he was doing. He is smart. Yes, he does have Aspergers, but he seems to be very high functioning and someone posted earlier that he was diagnosed in 2008 so that is very recent. I don’t know if he should be extradited, but I do think that he should be punished for his actions. He caused a lot of damage, and he needs to be held responsible. I can understand how his mom is very upset about this, but he is an adult and should be accountable for his own actions. Like I said I don’t know if he should be extradited, because that does seem a little extreme, but he should definitely get a punishment by the law no doubt about it.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I would really like to know how the UK and American correction facilities are so different. The articles don’t give justice to why they want Gary to serve his sentence in the UK; it only states that if he were to serve in America it would be “cruel and unconscionable". Well, how so???
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, for Gary he does have Asperger’s Syndrome (obviously on the high scale of the spectrum). Furthermore, not many individuals without disabilities would be able to just hack into any type of military computers; let alone any normal house-hold computer. So yes Gary should be placed in a correctional facility, and it should not be up to his parents to decide which one is best for him.
Furthermore, how inappropriate is it that the mother is asking Barak Obama to intervene? I’m sorry, but our country has more important priorities then to see to one man (whether he has a disability or not).
This is certainly one of those situations that is not black and white. There are so many complexities and difficulties in this particular case that it is difficult to adamantly choose just one side of the argument. Some considerations must be taken into view when discussing the situation, however. Asperger’s Syndrome is certainly a disability, but it is very high functioning. It tends to affect the social aspect of a person’s life more than their intellectual or cognitive functioning. Because of this, I feel that Gary McKinnon did know what he was doing and that what he was doing was wrong. On the other hand, Asperger’s Syndrome is still a disability, and does affect the way a person acts. Some individuals experience and obsession with certain subjects, in McKinnon’s case UFOs, and this could have had some influence on his actions as well. In my opinion, there certainly needs to be some consequences for McKinnon’s actions, but his situation should most definitely be taken into account and certain adaptations should be made to accommodate his individual circumstances.
ReplyDeleteGary McKinnon should absolutely be held responsible for his actions. Yes he has a disability which no doubt is hard. He however, is a very smart man and I fully believe that he knew what he was doing was wrong. He is a citizen who must abide by the law just like the rest of us and should recieve consequences just like the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteThis topic reminds me of the previous topic-talking about imprisoning TBI individuals. Where do we draw the line? Is there even a line? Where does compassion come in? Where do ethics and legality fall? Is it fair? Is life fair? In the first article, it had a biased connotation toward the injustices of the law against someone with Asperger’s. The parents were making ridiculous claims that “if the law says it’s fair to destroy someone’s life in this way, than it’s a bad law” and even the great Obama wouldn’t want this. They also say "Our hope still lies with the government. What evidence do Gordon Brown and Alan Johnson need to understand what extraditing Gary would do to him, let alone us? Gary would not survive and I would not see my son again. All to oblige the Americans? If Gary's was such a dreadful crime, he should have been prosecuted and sentenced here years ago. Instead he's been left tortured by fear for seven years. Compassion can and must now prevail." That is the most outrageous statement that should have no effect on or any relation to the law and the fundamental law of consequences. The law has no feelings, only justice; and with a crime like his, it needs to be satisfied. True, no one has died or benefited from his action, but does something tragic have to happen in order for laws and statutes to be upheld? He does need to be tried, he does need to receive society's consequences.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Camille. Reading these stories always gets me all worked up. Yes, Gary does have a disability, but his disability does not inhibit his ability to know what he did was wrong. He knew it. He admitted it. He should be punished. When a law is broken there are consequences. We have consequences in the classroom, we have consequences in church, and we also have consequences in the rest of the world. If Gary is let off the hook, even though he has a typical IQ and was conscious of his actions, then this lets other people in the world think they can use their disability to get out of consequences for breaking serious laws. This cannot happen! I do not mean to sound heartless, because I truly love people with disabilities. I know that sometimes there should be exceptions, but this is not one of those times. He is intelligent enough to hack into US’ very high secured computers. Not many people without disabilities can even hack into one computer. I know it is wrong and if anything is wrong with my computer I have to get someone else to fix it. He is intelligent enough to be in charge of his own rights. His parents need to accept this and let their child pay for the laws he has broken. Gary needs to be accountable and should be extradited.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Gary McKinnon should absolutely be punished for his actions. I think that he should take responsibility for what he did. I do not mean to minimize the effects of Asperger’s Syndrome, however, it is a high-functioning disability. I do not think that this disability was the cause of Gary’s actions. He acted on several occasions; he did not just act once. Also, in the article, it said that “Crown Prosecution Service said his hacking activities were not random experiments in hacking but a deliberate effort to breach US defense systems.” This further suggests to me that this was not caused by his disability. Although people with Asperger’s can be “preoccupied with a particular subject of interest,” this would not explain deliberate and multiple attempts to hack into the US computer systems. It might provoke a one-time offense, but not multiple attempts to gather sensitive information. I also agree that if the UK has decided to turn him over to the US, they have found that Gary should be tried and punished for his actions as well. Overall, although I sympathize with Gary, I still believe that he should be punished for his actions.
ReplyDeleteI think that this issue is similar to the previous post about TBI. It poses some difficult questions about how far we should go to make accommodations for an individual’s disabilities. While I am an advocate for being well informed about the effects of a disability, I also believe that having a disability should never mean that an individual is free from accountability. This applies equally to classroom rules, social appropriateness and especially to governmental law. In the classroom we do not allow our students to escape punishment or other negative consequences for poor behavior, nor should we allow these individuals to commit major crimes without penalties. With that being said, I do believe in making accommodations for these individuals. I realize that individuals with Asperger’s can function on an extremely high level with exceptional skill in one area, and can still be deficient in social skills. These individuals should not have excuses made for them, but their should disability should be taken into account when trying them for crimes. I fully agree with the UK’s decision to let Gary be extradited and tried for his crimes.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Gary was well aware that his actions were illegal, I don't think they were done with malicious intent. It seems they were part of an all-consuming obsession to find UFOs. Of course he should be held accountable for his actions, but considering the circumstances and the fact that this crime was committed on British soil, he should be tried in the UK. One of the most interesting points of the Guardian article is that the U.K. has extradited twice as many criminals to the U.S. as the other way around. Gary doesn't need to be added to that list.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cassie and with many of the posts reacting to the Guardian article that Gary should be tried in the UK. I also believe that Gary should be held accountable for his actions but that his Asperger’s should definitely be taken into consideration. I think that Asperger’s affects him deeply; it may be a core explanation for his actions. Like many of you, I also think his actions should be punished, but I do not think that they warrant a possible 60 years in prison! DUI offenders usually spend less than 1/10 of that amount of time! That’s a little out of wack.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Gary should be extradited to the US. He was obviously aware of what he was doing, as he wrote, "will disrupt again". I think that when he is extradited however, that he should receive some extra help in the process, such as counseling perhaps. But, although I think that he deserves these extra services in the extraditing process, I think that he is still accountable for what he has done, and needs to be tried here in the US.
ReplyDeleteAfter reviewing the information provided and also comments left, I learned a few things like what Corinne left. He was not actually diagnosed with Aspergers until 2008 and this crime actually happened in 2001-2002!
ReplyDeleteI think there should be consequences for his actions, I am not even sure what, but I do believe for part of his consequences he should have to work with US computer security and show them the way he got into their systems and also ways to improve their systems. This way the US does not risk as much media hype, but also would give him a structured environment that would not cause him an "undued amount of stress."
However, I do feel he understand what he was doing even though he may have eccentricities related to the crime, I do believe he understood the consequences of what could have happened.
I think that Gary should be tried just like anyone else that would commit this crime. I think just by looking at the crime he committed you can tell that Gary is a very smart man. I do think that high security prison would be a big change for someone with Aspergers Syndrome but if you do the crime you must do the time. I was thinking of other ways Gary could pay for the crime he committed. The US government said that repairs would cost around 700,000 dollars- i wonder if somehow Gary could work off some of that money? He would still be paying for the crime and the punishment would be hard, but it also takes into account his disability. I do not think that Gary nor his parents should be blaming his actions on his disability becasue we all know that Aspergers Syndrome has to do with social situations, and we can not let this crime go unpunished, but the way we punish him can be thought about. There may be different ways he could do his time.
ReplyDeleteI this so often people like to use the fact that he has a disability therefore he couldn't help it as an excuse to get out of real punishment that he deserves. Aspergers syndrome doesn't enable him to have a clear understanding of what he was doing. Maybe he didn't understand the underlying moral of it all but he was still able to hack into so many computers. Therefore he was a very smart man. Is his punishment justified? yes, he deserves to be punished. Whether he is mentally impaired or not he needs to be punished and held accountable for his actions. I think he should also receive extra treatment or punishment in a way that he can understand. This way he will be able to receive the punishment that he deserves. I dont think that he should be just thrown into any type of jail because he could go crazy but just because he has a disability doesn't give him any right to do what he did.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that he should face consequences. Not only that, but like I said in the other post, it's to protect our society! Will he do it again if he doesn't receive consequences this time? I don't want to judge and I don't know if he would. But that is crazy that he could hack into so many of our systems. We just don't need that information out there for anyone to bribe or buy. Also, he was diagnosed after he did it? Ya, I think there should be consequences. He seems pretty intelligent to be able to do all of that hacking. I think he should not be able to walk away from it with no action shown at all.
ReplyDeleteAs was mentioned this is a lot like the issue regarding prisoners with traumatic brain injury. I think that Gary should be held accountable for his actions. I understand that his disability may have played a part in his actions, however, that disability is not just going to go away. Gary needs to be taught that there are consequences for his actions, and that he cannot do certain things. When dealing with individuals with disabilities who commit crimes we must not forget all the other individuals who may be impacted by their decisions. I don’t know the exact differences between how Gary would be punished in both countries, so I cannot really say whether or not he can be extradited. As far as I know I think he should because that is what the court has decided would be most beneficial.
ReplyDeleteIt's policy to try everyone who breaks the law in a country that they are tried in that country. He should be accountable for his actions regardless of his disability. He was also not diagnosed at the time. We do not know Gary's mental abilities, and how much he actually understands. It seems as though he was cognisient that he was doing something wrong. He should be tried in the country in which the illegal act was done.
ReplyDeleteI think it is clear that Gary does have a disability and that extraditing him would cause him a lot of distress and even "psychosis or suicide" but I think that could be said of a lot of the criminals in the prison system. I like the point that if Mckinnon is shown leniency, future problems with exploitation are likely to occur. Decisions have consequences regardless of the awareness of the decision maker. It reminds me of the example that you can't pick up one end of the stick without the other. If a toddler touches a hot pan, unfortunately we can't take away the consequence of their finger getting burned, but I think the lesson learned is valuable. Although sometimes I wish I could take away the painful or hard consequence from someone, I tend to forget that the lesson learned is very valuable and will help future decision making. I think the same can be said of decisions on such a grand scale.
ReplyDelete-Lauren Stevenson
If I were a Mom, which I am and if I have had children do something wrong...which they have, would I wnt them to take responsibility....yes I would!! Even though I have not had a child arrested for a crime, and they do not suffer from a certain "disability", there is something called "justice and mercy" which the courts should take into account for this case. Bottom line, justice needs to happen, Gary should be tried for his actionns and tried where he broke the law. Eventhugh he has been diagnosed with AS, he must have recognized that he was doing something wrong by the time he worked so hard to hack into a computer. Also, where the parents are so vocal about his sentence, and say he suffers from such a disability, it seems to me they are making a claim that the man is helpless to know what he was doing is right or wrong...where were they during his adventure with the US Gpvernment security and computer system. Terrorist? No one was killed, or injured, what are the implications if some one learned of his actions, and followed what he did and did great damage knowing if they claimed "diability" he would not have to face consequences according to the crime. I say, face up to the actions, the law broken, and if he is not, then mercy could step in and a parent who should have been aware of Gary's actions should take responsibility for him. Basically, if Gary is found mentally unable to take the consequensed, then his care giver should face them for him. Being tried in the US would be the right thing to do. A sentence needs to fit the crime, and the accomodations need to fit the disability....in the place of infraction.
ReplyDeleteWow this article and situation was really interesting and a great follow up real life situation to the blog that was posted a few weeks ago. I am all for making sure we evaluate disabilities and for trying to determine their behaviors and understanding that some behaviors are typical for certain disabilities. But I am also for observing those behaviors that aren't appropriate and trying to teach them another behavior that serves a more appropriate function. I feel like this man should be tried for what he has done. I think the number of computers that were hacked into and the reoccurance of this behavior should be really put into consideration. He should be accountable for his action and choices. It maybe hard for a parent or others to think that he should be punished for his crime, but we need to put into consideration the ripple effect this may have. We need to be teaching this concept of accountability over and over again as they are younger so that when they get to a college or higher the battles of self esteem (etc.)
ReplyDeleteThis is a very tough situation for me to analyze and formulate an opinion on. Yes, Gary Mickinnon did break the law and needs to be treated like everyone else when it comes to consequences. However, Mr. MicKinnon’s condition of Aspergers Syndrome needs to be taken into account. His aspergers could easily contribute to his actions of hacking into government computers. I know we can’t blame his wrongful actions on his disability, however it does need to be taken into account. Concerning him being extradited, I believe it needs to be done extremely cautiously and in a very delicate manner. The stress of this could cause permanent health problems and could lead to him dying emotionally and physically. But I still do believe he needs to learn from his mistakes and take responsibility for his actions.
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